John Sobb
Transcribed and rewitten from old newspaper articles as well as sections of the interveiw with Ms Henry.
By Spero Davias 2023
The Newcastle Herald Wednesday, April 25, 1984
During his forty-six
years in retail John Sobb has had to overcome many
challenges. He has witnessed many changes in the retail industry.
Sobb's Furniture was one of the last remaining family retail houses
until they decided to close on the 30th June, 1984.
John Sobb was born in Marrickville on the 18th October, 1923. His
father started the business originally in June of 1937, at 357 Hunter
Street. John joined his father in 1938 along with his uncle Leo who
came up from Sydney to help his brother in the business. During the
post depression and pre second world war period, retail was a very
personalised business.
Sobb's Furniture displayed this personal touch
by holding a family picnic at Speers Point Park in 1938. They also held
a talent quest through radio station 2HD.
The second world war started a short time after this and life was very
tough. John was at war for a period of three years (1942-1945). Leo
also went to war from 1940-1946. John's father was left to struggle on
in the business for this period. Dur:ing the second world war there
were
no stocks available as the production of furniture was prohibited
because they needed the materials for the munition factories. When John
and his uncle returned from the war they rejoined John's father in the
business. The problem of lack of stock lasted for a further ten years.
It was a gradual thing that took a long time to rectify itself. The
second world war was a big struggle for John Sobb and Sobb's Furniture.
There have been many changes in the retail industry since John Sobb
started. In the late thirties thousands of people would come down
from
Cessnock and Maitland, particularly Cessnock, Kurri Kurri and Neath."
This is something that does not occur today, because of the growth. of
Cessnock and Maitland retail wise. This was just one evident change in
retail that John witnessed.
Retail was very stagnant up until the sixties. The advent of discount
houses was a major change in the 1960's.
The first major one to
hit
Newcastle would have been Sydney Wide, This brought a very
different
way of retailing to Newcastle. The bigger retail companies were buying
a whole lot better than the smaller retailers, This was unfair
competition, it was very hard to exist. To try and compete with
this unfair
competition the Sobb's had to be very astute in their business.
This change is another example that confronted John Sobb in his life in
retail.
To overcome this problem Sobb's Furniture had to join a buying group
which was called "Furniture Trade Buyers Co-Op" This meant that
they could buy better and compete with the discount houses. The group
consisted of one hundred privately owned stores. This type of buying
still goes on today with groups such as Sportscene and Mensland in
operation to help the small man compete with the big boys.
The emergence of shopping centres coinciding with the more frequent use
of motor vehicles has changed retail. The public had means off
transport
to these shopping centres, and this dragged people away from the city
centre and made it hard for peeple like John Sobb to survive. Due to
this John's belief is that "if David Jones happened to close in the
city, the rest of the city would be in big trouble, as they are
the
drawcard.
Sobbs Furniture close.d its doors on the 30th June, 1984 Many were
sorry to see them go because they gave good personalised service.
"People realise that it won't be long before personal service is a
thing
of the past".
During John Sobb's forty-six year association with retail in Newcastle
he endured many changes. He overcame these changes to run a very
successful business in a very trying field.
---------------------------------------------
SUMMARY.
John Sobb was born in Marrickville, Sydney on the 18 . 10 . 23 .
He spent most of his childhood in Marrickville. His father
decided to move to Newcastle to start a furniture retail business
in June of 1937 . The shop then was situated at 357 Hunter Street .
John Sobb's Uncle Leo came up from Sydney with his brother t o help
him. In 1938 Sobb's Furniture held two advertising, social events
which were extrem.ely popular . The first one was a public picnic
at Speers Point Park and the second was a talent quest which was
run in conjunction with 2HD Radio.
The war was a tragedy that the Sobb family had to ove rcome .
Leo went to war from 1940 until 1946 and John went from 1942 until
1945 . The war made it very tough for John's father to survive in
business as they had extreme trouble getting stock. When Leo and
John returned from war they had to help Mr. Sobb Snr. rebuild the
business. They really came back from war to face another adversity .
It took about ten years before stock levels returned to an acceptable
level.
During his forty six years in retail John witnessed many
changes. In the early days when train loads of people would flock
down from the Coalfields to shop in Newcastle which doesn ' t ha ppen
now . The ad vent of the discount houses in the 1 960 's T h es&
h~uses made it very hard to compete and the only way you co uld was
to be very astute in your business. Also the lar g e shopping centres
made it hard for the little shops to survive.
Sobb's Furniture closed its doors on the 30th June , 1984. They
were very appreciative of the people of Newcastle and had a very
happy association with retail.
Were you born in New Lanbton?
No I was born in Marrickville, Sydney on the 18. 10.23. I
was schooled in Marrickville up to the age or up to the year 1937.
When dad decided to come to Newcastle I completed a further six
months schooling at Marist brothers.
Did you spend most of your childhood in Sydney?
Most of my childhood. Only the last six months of my schooldays
were spent in Newcastle.
When you moved to Newcastle was that when your fatther decided to
open the business?
My father decided to come to Newcastle and open the business
which was at 357 Hunter Street and that was in June 1937. His
brother came up and worked for him then. He started with him as
an employee, his brother Leo and I finished school in February 1938.
Dad wanted me to carry on and go to college but I didn't wan t to do
that. I don't know what set me on the thoug ht of re tailing but all
I wanted to do was get into the shop. In February 1938 he more or
less said ok if you decide you are not going to coll ege, well you
can come in and give it a go and see how you go. So really thats
what happened . So I started in 1939. Then his brother went into the
army in early 1940, it would have been 40 or maybe l ate 40 perhaps.
I went into the army in May 1942. The first twelve or eighteen
months after the war had started stocks were reasonably plentiful.
But wi~in a further twelve months it was practically impossible to
get any stocks. Alot of people were called up for different kinds
of duties, into munition factories and so forth and alot of other
people we nt into services. I was away form the period of may 1942
until October 1945. After I left the shop , stockwise things were
very bad. dad moved across the road into a very small shop with
one other fellow on the staff and just battled on with wha t ever
stock they could get until the war finished. I came back i n October
1945, my uncle Leo came back in January 1946. There was a property
two doors away from where dad was operating from. It was a much
larger shop which was 400 Hunter Street. That became available for
sale and dad purchased that property after consulting Jack and
myself as to whether we felt that we would give it a go and see
how we went for stock because we didn't have and idea what the
situationwas going to be like.
After the war was over, did it make it very tough?
Very very hard for any retailer. It wasn't hard to sell
anything it was hard to get the stock to sell . We decided yes okay,
we would give it a go. we Didn't have any idea how we would go
and we started there immediately after the war. It was just Jack, Leo
I'm sorry he was called jack which is confusing because it ma k e two
Jacks. So Leo myself and my dad . we kicked off with the i de a of just
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PAGE 2
A
seeing how we would operate wise and that would have depeded on how
long we would of stayed there, really that virtue!Ly what ~t amounted
to.
What was Hunter Street, What did it look like then compared to now?
Hunter Street in those days one particular thing I can remember
was, one week was considered steel works pay and the following week
was the miner's pay and always on the miners pay day you could rest
asure that there would be train loads of people that would come
down from Cessnock and Maitland particulary Cessnock, Kurri and Neath,
all those places. On every second Saturday morning hundreds or
thousands of people would come down from the coalfiels to shop in
Newcastle, that was very very notic!able! that is something of course
that you don't see today at all. that ~as a very noticable thing
that every second Saturday morning, I can remember one train used to
get in at the Civic Station about twenty past eight and you would see
people getting of the train and straight into the shops every
Saturday over the years that just died out with the growth of Maitland
shopping and so forth and I guess Cessnock became larger shopping wise.
When you originally went, started off when you left school did you
envisage to be in business?
As far as selling was concerned I loved it.I had no idea what
the future held for me I was too young I guess to have even thought
about that. Then the war started which made the whole situation
completely different to what it is today. I think in those days
people, they just were 1 nto sure where they were going. I mean the war
came and if you went into the army either voluntary of if you were
called up irrespective you were in there. It was very hard to even
consider what the future held.
c:J What about when you came back from the war?
When I came back from the war I still had only one thing in mind
and that was retail. Hoping that we would get sufficient stocks to
carry on one of us would make a trip to Sydney every week. Every
week we would be down calling on, sometimes staying two and three
days calling on manufacturer's pleading with manufacturer~s. You
know we might of had thirty manufacturer•s that we would call on in
a period of two days . Most manufacturer~s in those days didn't even
want o"t see you because they didn't need any people calling on them
to sell their merchandise. They could ring up one store like the
major stores and they could take their complete output. It was very
very hard to go to Sydney and you would come back and you might have
been lucky enough to get two bedroom suites, one lounge suite and
one dining room suite. Stock was so difficult so it made your business
week to week depending on how lucky you were to how much stock that
you got.
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When did it star to rectify itself?
It took about, I don't know whether the tape was on when I
mentioned to you regarding lounge furniture how they were barred
during the war years, they were not allowed to be made.
Why was that?
Again shortage of materials and most of the people had been
caught up in munition works. Most of t he factories were converted
into materials that were used for the war. This is why so many
things were not allowed to be manufactured during that time. I suppose
the first, from 1946 that was when we moved into 400 Hunter Street,
early 46. The first three or four years would have been very very
difficult stock wise and then it just seemed to ease from year to year.
I just couldn't put a year on it when everything just became plentiful!.
Possibly round, round about by the late SO's things started to get
back to normal as far as stocks were concerned. We employed a chappy
after having been there for about six months we were getting sufficent
stock to make things via~e . We put a fellow on for a week, we wanted
a bit o f polishing done. He was a bit of a jack of all trades fellow
and we put him on for a week and he stayed with us for about thirty
years. That was a shop now where th G.I.O building stands. Do you
know the G.I.O. building? Yes.
Thats wher e we were there and we stayed there . Dad I should say
purchased the pro~erty down at 615 Hunter Street which would have
been around the alte SO's when he purchased the property that Hustlers
were renting that, in those days you couldn't get tenancy out. But
eventually Hustlers moved out , we had to wait eight years I think
it was. We got notification that they were moving out. Then we
modernised the shop and sold the existing property where we were. Dad
needed that money for the purchase, not for the purchase of the other
one. well her more or less, he probably borrowed money to bu~ the
other one and then to the mortage or whatever. It had renovations,
it had a complete ~new shop front on it. Then we traded right up until
Saturday morning. We c~sed the old shop at 400 Hunter Streetand we
opened the new one on the f oll owing Monday morning. We traded right
up until the Saturday; we didn't have much to move. We ordered new
stock for that new shop,we ended up with reasonable stock that had
to be moved down from 400 down to 615. 615 Hunter Street was down
where , between the water board and the Gas Company, we probably went
there in 1964.
When you were saying aboutthe miners and everyone coming down from
Maitland and so forth. When did that type of thing start to slow
down?
Actually that really I think happened going back from memory,
that was more pre war. When we first started and the early years of
the war. Immediately after the war, I'm not too sure about that. That
was more or less 1937-38,39.40 up until the time that I went away. So
we came back and we traded there. We ended with a staff of about
eighteen in all at the west end when we more or less finished.
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What other changes did you witness in your thirty odd years of trading
in the city centre itself?
Well retailing was much the same just up until the time that,
there wasn't a g r eat deal of change in retailing. Except until the
advent of what we now call discount houses . They were never actually
heard of. The first major one to hit Newcastle would have been Sydney
Wide. They are no longer in existence but they were the first ones
tp come to Newcastle . They opened actually directly opposite where
we were at 615 Hunter Street. There was a local. Pesch~ar. John
Peschtar, he may have even been before Sydney Wide. He wasn't in a
big way like Sydney Wide were. They were of course followed by Norman
Ross and that bought really a very different way of retailing, the
way that they retailed. Then you got the stage where by as stocks
became very plentif ull and manufacturers were having problems disposing
their stocks. It was like haVing the boot on the other foot . Like
twenty years say ten years prior to that when stock was very hard
to get they didn't want to see the retailers ans was say a complete
reverse say in the following ten years . Then the bigger retail
companies were buying a whole lot better than the smaller retailers.
More or less the smaller retailers were subsidising the big boys .•
Which really you know is not fair competition. Very much the same as
the major food stores today with the little corner shops. Most of the
little corner shops have gone out of business. If you were not astute
in your business with retailing, particularly in the furniture game,
the electrical game as well it was very hard to exist really.
When you say astute. Do you mean give very good service?
Well service, there is no substitute for service, there is
no sub stitute for quality and I think the main things one had to
know. Number one, you had to buy right . If you couldn't buy right
you can't sell right, so you are not being competitive, I mean if
you are going to buy on a bad market you can't sell your product
to give you sufficient margin to keep your business operating. So
it was amatter of say furniture lines would have been easier then
white goods. When I say white goods I mean white goods not black
goods because it got to a matter of ifone of the big major companies
were buying Kelvinators at a price and the smaller man found it hard
to compete. With furniture you had more of an opportunity of getting
exclusive lines and things like that. Different materials and
dif fernt designs and things like that which made it a little bit
easier to get a reasonable margin . But it was very very difficult to
compete with the big operators unless you worked that way. You had
to be very astute with your buying.
Did that come in during the 1960's?
Yes that star ted in the sixties. The discount house retailing
started in the sixties. We were then, what happened with general
retailing would have happened in all fields . We were contacted by a
person from Sydney who was having the same problems as all retailers.
He was a privately owned furniture store. He wasn't~but he was buying
for a small group that had been formed called Fu rniture Co Op Trading
or Furniture Trade Buyers Co Op. They had arrived at the idea the
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only way the small could compete successfully against the bigger
operator was to form a co op of privately owned stores or selected
privately owned stores. We were given the opportunity of becoming
a member of this co op. Which we did and that helped us and that
helped us to know to a great extent because we employed a buyer in
Sydney. As years went on the show got better. We would be having
buying meeting in Sydney three to four times a year. Our group ended
up with over 100 stores, privately owned stores which gave us a very
very big buying power.
Did you stay in that group until you closed?
Yes we stayed in that group until we finished . The group is
still operating, it is now called Furniture One, they have changed
the name but it is still operating. Those Stores came from places
like Griffith, Aranda, Canberra, Nowra, Bega,Tamworth, Bourke
everywhere all over the state, That was the one way it gave the
smaller man opportunity of competing against the big shows because
we would get alot of lines made exclusively. Alot of the big
manufacturers didn't want to supply Sydney Wide or Norman Ross. The
larger accounts the very very big show they threatened that they
would stop buying from them if th~supplied these discount houses.
What happened there was the trade practices bill was bought in and
Sydney Wide took a couple of the maufacturers on and won the case.
Which meant it was restricting of trade so they had to supply them,
they~re forced to supply them. Then they used the excuse that they
really did not want to b~ 1-they were f righ tene d of losing the big
accounts. That was the excuse, that we have no choice we have got t~
I mean restrict of trade. The bill has been passed and we have got
to supply.
These changes that have happened and the way retail is today.
Do you think they are for the better or would you like to see it the
way it used to be in the old days?
Well I think really since the self service type of operations
came in. I've got to start that again. Apart from the retailing
change the buyers have changed. The attitude of the buyer has
changed completely. Going back twenty years ago if somebody came
into say a furniture store and they wanted to look at a dining
room suite.They would be approached usually in a cheerfull manner
by a salesman "Can I help you madam? Would you like some help?"
They say "Yes I would like to have a look at a dining room suite
please". They were seeking the advice of the person that was there
who should of known the product if he was worth his wages he should
have known all about it. He should have been able to give the client
alot of advice. That really was the way I was brought up in selling.
With the discount house type of operation the change came that if
people wanted to buy something they would walk into one shop and
start with the white goods where they wanted to buv a Kelvinator, they
would go into one of the discount houses and get the price there and
then go around to the others and check it out. So when they were
approached in other shops they would say, 'No thanks just l ooking'.
They were not seeking any help and that became more prevalent as
years went on.
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PAGE 6
It's stronger that way now I feel than ever it has been. People
think they know all about the product. I think also alot of pe ople
in the retail stores don't know the products they are selling. Perhaps
thats one of the reasons looking at it now. But the younger people
as they have grown up in the last twenty years, they have got the
idea that we know what we want, we don't want to get any information
from him. I think they miss out on alot of things • Not so much
perhaps with a refrigerator but alot in the furniture game where there
is alot of things that people don't know about that can be explained
to them if they are prepared to listen. I don't know whether w~ have
been indoctrinated with the self service thing I most certainly don't
like the self service.
You would like to see it the way it used to be?
Well I think it was much more pleasant, I think for everybody.
The attitudes of the buyer you know have changed so much. Whether
they think the salesman is going to tie them up or something I don't
know and be a real high pressure type of salesman that could be I
don't know. But we can only speak of our own wav we never ever
believed in that type of operation at all. We always wanted to be
able to talk to people to expla~n to people but certainly not to high
pressure at all.
With the city centre the way ir is now, with people saying in ten
years time its going to turn into offices with no shops. What do
you think about that?
I don't think that will happen. They said the same thing in
Sydney when the shopping complexs first started in Sydney. They said
there would be nothing in the city, no retailing left in the city.
We have more or less followed the pattern of Sydney over the years.
Whether I'm right or wrong I don't know but going along the pattern
of Sydney I'd sav there will always be retailing in the city. The
current council are trying to do everything about mono-rails and so
forth, you know creating interest back in the city and something has
got to be done.
Do you think the things they are coming up with are or will be an
advantage to retail?
I couldn't answer that~! wouldn't know that Boyd. My own be lief
would be if D.J's happened to close in the city the city would be in
big trouble because I think they are the drawcard. I know D.J's in
the city and the Newcastle central business centre would be in hea~
of trouble. Thats just my own viewpoint on it.
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I was doing a bit of background reading, there is a paper
advertisement when you closed down and it said about you having
public picnics and things. When did they occur?
That occured it would have been 1938 something like that. It
was apublic picnic that we put on at Speers Point Park. It was
advertised extensively and there were photos in the Newcastle
Herald which are somewhere. I'll have to try and line them up if
I can . We had buses, double decker buses, taxis I just can't
remember how many taxis there were and buses to transport peopl~
Other people would have gone by bus, in those days . I ' m not quite
sure how they w-0uld of got to Speers Point. There were races
orgainised, sprint races for different age groups, cas h prices were
given for it. It was a very big day.
Just a social event?
It was just an advertisng event, it was very popular. It was
advertised through 2Hd. We had a talent quest also with 2Hd, that
was a separate show. It went on for some months.
Did you only have one picnic?
Yes only the one, the war came after that. Everything
changed from there on.
But the advent ' of the motor car has changed retailing so
much. Going back twenty five years very few families would have
had two motor cars. Thats why the shopping centres are there
because of the motor car.
Is this because they had access to the c entr es?
They wouldn't be there if it wasn't for the motor car . I
suppose in this day and age it would be very difficult for me
to name six people and that are in good health that don't own a
motor car. In 1965, sixty, sixty five it wo uldn't have been any
trouble to name sixty. I w-0uld have to stop an d think if I was
to name six people that are fit and in good health that don't own
a car. Can you name any?
No.
So it really did c ange things.
When did you close your operation in Hunter Street?
Well we decided we would close. We closed on the 30th June,
1984. We started the closing down sale, it would have been the
day after Anzac Day 84, thats right. We had big stocks, very big
stocks in the end. We were leasing a store in Steel Street we
had leased until October. So we were comitted to pay rent until
October . We thought that if we didn't clear all of our stock by
the time April 26 to 30th June. Thats when we decid ed we were
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PAGE 8
going to close down Hunter Street. We would have moved the stock
to Steel Street and had four months that we could have traded
from around there to dispose the balance of the stock. As it
turned out we didn't need that. Good luck, good management call
it what you like. We would have had something_ in the facinity,
something around three hundred thousand dollars in stock when we
started the sale . When we finished we had one thousand dollars
of stock, so we didn't have to work after, as far selling the
stock we didn't. All together it was a very happy association,
my association with retailing. I thoroughly enjoyed it, I love
retailing, I love selling. If the hours had of remained reasonable
I would have still been there.
It said in the paper article that a lot of people were sorry to
see people like yourself and Mackies go.
Thats the personal touch that has gone out of it. So many
people, Mackies privately owned stores in Newcastle, family owned
stores were Mackies, ourselves, that would have been it I guess.
Micky Light many years ago, although G.B. 's bought him out many
years prior to that. But I think when big public companies come
and take over the shows it's not the same. Mackies had a big
personal following the same as we did, we carried a similar type
of merchandise. We weren't in the very cheap end and not right
at the top end but from the middle to the top bracket. Mackies
had a very similar type of stock. Ac tuall_h. they were in the same
buying group as we were. We were the twos tores but we were
selected initially to go into the buying group.
Leo my uncle and myself who had been working together since
1938 except for the period we were in the forces. We had discussed
the situation in respect to the extra hours, Thursday night shopping
came in and then to go with the discount houses in later years.
Some of them were illegaly opening all day Saturday and Sunday and
public holidays. So we could see eventually this was going to be
the norm. That it was going to be seven days a week shopping. We
couldn't see much future in that as we were getting older. We felt
that we didn't want to just live for work we wanted to work to live.
We have worked hard and have had a very successful business and
very appreciative of the support we have had in Newcastle over the
years. We think that we ~ gave good service . We have had a lot,
a lot of satisfied clients. I guess they weren't all satisfied, we
must of had some but they were very much a very very small percentage. We did our utmost to keep everybody happy. If we had any
complaints we always made sure they were fixed up. As I said
earlier had the hours been reasonable perhaps we may have stayed a
bit longer. We had a good innings, we felt the time had come to
spend a bit more time with our families and enjoy the rest of our
life that we have.
By Spero Davias
from information kindly obtained from BOYD STEWART
AUSTRALIAN HISTORY
TUTORIAL ESSAY
TUTOR: M. HENRY & the Sobb Family